Good evening

IN ANN ARBOR UNIVERSITY IN EASTERN MICHIGAN

17 Dec. 2003

.DR. Buthaina was going to spend a semester class teaching and lecturing on women in the Middle East in 2000. That was two years before I was here. But her reputation from that short time has spread the institution of Eastern Michigan. And I am especially pleased when we have a poli-credential university academic. And she can basically do whatever she wants, and right now, she is willing to serve for her country. And she is Syrian minister of Expatriates affairs. It is very much my pleasure Dr. Sha’aban to host you here, and we apologize for our lack of protocol you deserve much higher protocol, but on the other hand you know you are a friend.

Bouthaina is a friend to many people in this room. And she is a very distinguish academic for her English lecturer and now she is carrying a very distinguish career in politics in the national level in Syria. And it is a great pleasure to welcome her this evening while she is going to talk about Syrian foreign policy.

Dr. Bouthaina Shaaban:

Good evening we have a very special feeling toward this room; Janet, Hesham and I. that was extremely pleasurable. I learnt a lot from our students, and I learnt a lot from Eastern Michigan. And I am very grateful for everyone at Eastern Michigan University because I felt so much at home and I learnt a great deal. And I have been thankful very much, and it is lovely to see you here and I would love to talk to each one of you, and to name each one of you. All of you are my friends and I’m really really happy to be here. Thank you for your coming on a very short notice because as I was under reconcile of Naji Arwashan who was arranged my tour here, because Hesham was in Syria. I could not make this trip to the United States without visiting Eastern Michigan. It is a very lovely place to my heart. Lovely to see you.

I would like to say that in this time of great technological and information technology and advancement every single day I feel the need is more pressing for personal encounter and for personal information because unfortunately this information technology is not only capable of conveying information, it seems to be more capable of conveying miss-information which is really now in heart of our greatest challenge to get to inform each other better and to know each other better.

I’ve been in this country for about ten days and I was started in Los Angeles and went to Huston and to Chicago and I feel, you know, I do not know any thing about what is going on in the Middle East unless I read the New York times and the US today and watching CNN and the ABC, and I am pleased today in New York I’ve been able to read the Arab newspaper and I feel such a difference, you know, each one is going in one direction and not intersecting with one another. Our news goes in one line, and the European news goes in one line, it does not seem to intersect, it is not the same news, it doesn’t seem to be the same reality. And I feel, it is now really inconvenient in all of us to try and to make our best to be able to inform each other better, and to know about each other’s elements in a better way. I will just shed some light on the inner perspective, let me say, on the American policy in the Middle East, and then I will go to the Syrian – American relationships.

Nowadays, as a friend, or as someone who believes that we are all in one boat: American, Syrian, Arab, Muslims, Christians, Jewish… .we are all in one boat. I feel that we all have an obligation to try and to face reality, to tell each other about reality, so that we probably can do something about this crazy world. It seems to me it is very dangerous moment in history really. It is the moment that requires all the will and the energy we can have.

Since I’ve been in Eastern I can say that , unfortunately, The reputation of what the United States is doing in the Middle East has gone really really down, and the credibility of what the United States does as the only super power is now quite questionable in the minds of most Arabs and Muslims. And after the tragic event of the 9 / 11 we feel, rightly or wrongly, that this policy that have been pursued is only giving the whole ground to extremists for all religions rather than combating terrorism or fighting terrorism. That for many reasons, perhaps the first of which is that it is trying to do it in racial grounds, of religious grounds; Muslims are terrorists, Arabs are terrorists. And if so categorical and so absolutists in approach; you are either with us or against us, the civilized world thinks that, the Arab World thinks that, so this absolutists and categorical approach is really harmful to all of us. .

I remember that I used to stand in Al-assad Liberary in Syria and to speak about the Arab women and the western women and to speak about the distortion are both sides have. We distorted the image of western women. The west distorted the image of the Arab women. And I used to be able to stand and defend western women. I don’t think I can, now, stand and defend what the west is saying in my menu, because people are so angry. So, what I am saying is that this policy is creating so much anger, and creating a wedge between people and between religions that the only way , perhaps, is to try and focus on the strategies and how we can face that. Almost, anybody who arrived in any capital will immediately be able to know the American embassy, because it is always high walls. And for a super power like the United States, economically, you know, in everything superior to the world I feel they need really smaller world, and they need to live this confidence and love and they can live this confidence and love.

Before the Iraq war, Syria tried its best to point to the fact that is the real solution in the Middle East would be to address the Arab-Israeli conflict, because this is, truly, the major source of turmoil in the region. And it had been going on for fifty years and we could doubt if a comprehensive peace is achieved between Arabs and Israelis, and if sanctions are lifted of Iraq, Saddam would definitely get weaken, and the Iraqi people would get strengthen and the solution in the region would be a lot easier on all frames. Of course, what happened happened, and many people in the region believe that what happened in Iraq really was so tragic for the Iraqi people, and ,you know, it happened in a sense, probably, in adversity with the help of the United States, because they supported Iraq in the war against Iran, and the sanctions were so terrible against the Iraqi people. They really kept Saddam in power for the last ten years. I would like just to give you a tangible example. As Syria was working for lifting the sanctions of Iraq in the Arab League, you know, the only Arab ministers about four years ago. All Arab ministers decided that to lift the sanctions of Iraq regardless of the United States or the world wants to say, because we know that the Iraqi people are the worst affected, and the regime is the greatest beneficiary of these sanctions. Do you know who worked out of the meeting?? The Iraqi foreign minister. Because he did not want the sanctions to be lifted of Iraq. And we talked this to American officials saying it is the Iraqi government who doesn’t want the sanctions to be lifted, and if you lift the sanctions you really strengthen the Iraqi people, and weaken the regime, but, you know, nothing of these words were headed.

What worries us really is that I was just listening to the news, and you know, they are saying this is who was suspected to do something and, you know, this kind of pre-emptive action on suspicions. They were going from house to house searching. Of course, you hear this. The American forces were going from house to house searching for somebody of the old regime, but what we see in the Arab world which you don’t see is the American soldiers are getting in, the women trying to cover their heads, the men are being tied their hands behind their back, the children are screaming, the furniture is set upside down.. there is so much humiliation in the whole scene that doesn’t reach you. And then, they would say that this afternoon about eight Iraqis are believed to be killed. No American causality was noticed.

This tone of putting Americans, excuse me, above everybody else, and that no matter how many people are killed, it doesn’t matter, the important point is no American causality is registered, it is really creating a horrible valley between Americans and people in the rest of the world, which is really bad, and which is really not good.

What I say when I talk everywhere is that the American people are so deceptive, and so objective, and they wouldn’t accept anything that would involve killing of children, destruction of houses. That we have to make the voices reach the American people. The American people need to know first what is going on before they can take a stand on what is going on.

And if I can here take Syria as an example to show you how things, how we view things in the Middle East. When Saddam occupied Kuwait Syria joined the United States in sending forces in order to liberate Kuwait from Saddam, because we take a stand against occupation, and we believe that all occupations, and illegal settlements should end in the region. And after that president Bush the father had a peace initiative, the Madrid peace initiative, and I was there when James Baker, secretary of the United States, went to Damascus and said to president Assad “I am coming here only to say thank you because without you the Madrid peace conference couldn’t be convened. It is your approval to the initiative that makes the Madrid peace possible”. We went to Madrid, and we spent ten years negotiating in Madrid. And at one point we felt that peace is around the corner. So much was achieved of all the requirements of the comprehensive peace. Many elements were achieved; security arrangement, join of normal relations. You know, the only element that remains there was that the element of borders. And you remember went to SheverdsTown, and they 2000 January in order to solve that, and any of you who had read the memorial of Madline Ulbrite. She said in her memorial that the Syrians were so forth coming in SheverdsTown. They really went there in order to make peace, but it was Barak who back down, because he was so worried about the full back in Israel.

So peace was not made, but really at one point I thought my next project might be a comparative literature what is Israeli woman wrote, what a Palestinian woman wrote, and what Arab women wrote because I felt so close that we felt we are going to make it and we didn’t.

Now, after 9 / 11 Syria cooperated with the United States against terrorism, because we had been targeted by terrorism before , and we know how it feels, and how it should be combated. And senior American officials did acknowledge the cooperation of Syria against terrorism both in Congress and in the state department. At least in seven instances American lives were saved, and this is what American sources said about the new worker, about three months ago about Syrian cooperation with the United States against terrorism, and American lives were saved as the result of this cooperation.

Yet, you know, out of the glow comes all the stress to Syria. And, suddenly, Syrian-American relations becomes in a very difficult stage, and the Syrian Accountability Act is passed in Congress, which, perhaps, might be seen puzzling to some people.

and I will say what is our reading to the situation. As Syria had worked all the way along with the United States in order to make peace in the Middle East. As Syria had cooperated with the United States against terrorism, although our name remains on the list of punishment harder in the terrorism in the United States, the question is why aren’t Syrian – American relations any better shape?? Where is the conflict between Syria and the United States ??

In fact, Syria seems to me from an intellectual point of view the very obvious candidate to cooperate with the United States on every level. It has a secular society, multiconventional society like the United States where all ethnicities, all religions live together, and the role or women is quite good in Syria and we have been working against occupation, we have been working for peace, we have been cooperating against terrorism. So what is the difference??

the issues that the United States or the administration have been listing for Syria to do are the Palestinian organizations in Syria, and Huzballah which is a Lebanese party, and controlling the borders between Syria and Iraq. Although one secretary of the United States, Colin Powell, visited Syria the president Assad said to him “we are trying our very best to control the borders, but, you know, there are long borders, five hundred miles borders, and, as you know, it is not easy to control one’s border. The United States has the problem in its borders with Mexico, and we said to the administration you either control the borders because you are now our neighbors, you control the other side of the borders, or to give us equipments to control the borders. We don’t have the sophisticated equipments to control the borders, but certainly we exerting our best to control the borders”. And a few American officers in Iraq said there is no interaction or what so other from the Syrian borders.

The concept of blaming, you know, Syria or Iran or anybody for what is going on in Iraq is a wrong concept, because you are pointing twenty-two million Iraqis, and the history of Iraq had never accepted occupation. And the Iraqi people are well-known, they are extremely dignified people, sophisticated people, intellectual people. You know, in Arabic we have the proverb, previously, that Cairo writes, Beirut publishes and Baghdad reads. The Iraqis are known, they are the best intellectual in the Arab world, the best readers in the Arab world, the most dignified in the Arab world. So, why underestimate the ability of the Iraqis or jump of the problem to us. Our reading is just to try to attribute the problem to Iran, or to Syria or what to is going on rather than face the problem.

That is what happening in Iraq really is that chaos. There is no services, no security, there’s so much humiliation. You know, the archeological sight of Iraq are being looted on daily bases, women tango anywhere in order to liberate women. A British Independent said that the position of women in Iraq now is at least three times worse of than it was under Saddam. And this is the British Independence, it is not any Arab source. In fact in every aspect, they said, it is worse of than it had been under Saddam. It is not something that we like prolong the suffering in the misery of the Iraqi people. I think everyone expected that the United States will be able to address the situation better in Iraq and faster in much better way.

Now, what does the United States have against these Palestinian organizations in Syria??

You know, we have not only organizations, but we have also five hundred thousands Palestinian in Syria, and we have five hundred thousands Palestinian in Lebanon. Many of those people still have the keys of their houses. They were expelled out of their houses, out of their territories. Their houses were taken, their territories were occupied, and they were pushed out of their territories, out of their country and they came to Syria. What are we supposed to do with them?? They say expel them. Where can we expel them ? expel the leaders. Where can we expel the leaders? We don’t know, we don’t know. Many of these leaders, by the way, you hear about have PhDs from the United States. They are not terrorists, they are not militance, you know, they are people who read and write and think and understand and strategy.

And Huzballah, the only person now, the only party now, right now, in the Arab world who is negotiating with Israel is Huzballah. Huzballah is negotiating the hostages with Israel, so how could, you know, this party be the terrorist on one level, on the other level it is the only party that is negotiating with Israel about the hostages. And if I can say from experience, I mean, Huzballah is the one political party that was not existed before the Israeli occupation of Lebanon. Before 1980 there was not such thing called Huzballah. So, it came out as a result of the occupation. It came out to resist occupation. It never killed an Israeli citizen, civilian, never ever. It never targeted the inside Israel, it targeted Israeli soldiers on Lebanese territories with the purpose of liberating the Lebanese territories.

But what is the issue? Why should the United States be in party from this instead of being a good sponsor to the peace process? The Syrian logic is that; the Palestinian organizations, the Palestinian in Syria, Huzballah, everything will be solved if we have a comprehensive peace agreement in the region. And nothing will be solved unless the peace agreement is reached. And as we have been trying for years to make a comprehensive peace, we need the leadership of the United States in order to help in making this peace in the Middle East. But, as you well-known in the last three years, the United States is no longer that is used to call peace negotiations. The honest broker, you know that is term, the honest mediator or the honest broker, but now when we see that president Bush, for example, would say that this wall is bad, and those people who want to make peace should not build wall and then the representative, the ambassador uses the ‘Vito’ to prevent the condemnation of this wall, you know, you wonder where the policy is going.

So, I think, if I can say so, one element that I detect in the policy of the United States towards the Middle East is the underestimation of the intelligence of people. You know, Arabic people don’t notice, or don’t know, or don’t realize. And also never taking the dignity of people into account.

Today, I was reading what is happening in Kalkelia, what is happening in Kalkelia is something terrible, you know, people can’t get to their houses because of the wall, the territories pushed away because of the wall. A man said, I can never ever see the territory that I planted and worked in for all my life. There is, really, in my opinion a genocide going on in the Palestinian territories. You know, this might count so unfashionable, and unpleasant to say , but that is absolutely what is going on.

In the last year alone a hundred and fifty thousands Palestinians had been displayed of their own home. At least thirty percent of the Palestinians are refugees in their own villages and towns. They destroy their houses and they let them refugees. The only thing that they left is the old trees. In the last three years three hundred thousands of these trees had been picked off. Two hundred and fifty children under the age of ten have been killed. What wee see is happening. It is the application of the logic of force to the Middle East. Who ever has armament, who ever is strong can roll. On the other hand the United States is always making everybody else dazzle because they are intending to build weapons , or they have weapons or they might have weapons. In the meantime Israel has all the weapons it can master in the world .

Now the problem with all these is that it is doing a disturbance, it is genocide against the Arab. But it is doing this disturbance to the Americans. And in London, it is doing a huge disturbance to the Israeli people in whose name made it’s been made, because what we noticed in the last three years is so much hatred, and so much anger is being created in the region among Arabs and Muslims.

You know, we take it now, that the Arab are in a very bad shape, and they are, and they are in a very weak juncture of their history, and they are. But if you care about the other side it is the best commend to make peace with them. Right??! In this term that are quite acceptable according to every logic in the world.

And if I can remind you of the initiative that all Arab countries put on the table in Beirut, in March 2002. That all Arab countries were prepared to make peace with Israel if Israel would withdraw to the lines of 1967. Now, what is more price to pay in order to make the Middle East peaceful and secure. And then everybody in the administration speaks about the security of Israel. What about the security of others?? What about the culture, the identity of the others??

What is happening now, really, is a war against identity. It’s not only the Iraqi museum has been looted, but Babel and Nenanwa also. There are British articles, now, speaking about Babel and Nenanwa being looted on daily bases. These pieces are not even registered at least in the museum. Some pieces were registered and one would know what was looted , but when looting is taking place in an archaeological size. And we don’t know what is happening; the library in Bosra was burnt. The memory of the Arabs is being burnt, and their culture and their identity.

We don’t know what is the way to try and stop this vehemence against everything that is moderate. While the reading of the situation is like this, Who is the strengthen ? it is the extremists, who say the west say so, the United States say so. They only support Israel, and if you dignified you should, really, join the extremists. It is really giving ground to the extremists, and it is certainly undermining all liberal-minded people, all moderate people, all people who believe in dialogue, who believe in the necessity for working together, east and west. This logic of force is undermining the logic of dialogue, and the logic of moderation.

I think what we have to do from now on is to try and work Christians, Muslims and Jewish. There is no other way because portraying this conflict as a religious conflict is something so terrible and so far removed from the truth. No Muslim can be a Muslim without believing in all the prophets. We have to take this cover off this conflict as being a religious conflict, and try to really portrait as it is which is a political a political problem and it is a problem of occupation.

What is happening right now is that the linage is being made between the United States stated and Iraq, you know, using all the oil in Iraq, giving all the contracts to companies. That is on one hand, and on the other hand never speaking about occupation and settlement. The real problem really in the Arab-Israeli conflict is occupation and settlement. Now, and you will, probably, have some lecturers coming to Eastern as well. The latest trend is for AIPAC to send people to talk at universities and say that the conflict and the problem in the Middle East is not occupation and settlement and even if you solved the Arab-Israeli conflict eighty percent of the conflict will remain which is absolute non-sense, of course.

They are trying to focus on how terrible Arab regimes are, on the lack of democracy, on how you want to change the Arab world to make it better world. Again with the sense of the western superiority that we have to go and civilize these people who don’t know how to make democracy and don’t know how to be civilized.

If you notice what happen on the Palestinian front, for two years we have been listening to what Arafat is doing, what is his irrelevant. He didn’t do a hundred percent, and then Abo Mazen, Qrueih comes. He is probably better than Arafat. He understands the mind of Sharon. All this drama is irrelevant. Not only that, it is used as a pretest to change reality on the ground. In the last year and on two hundreds and thirty settlements, new settlements, had been built by Sharon. The wall takes all the sources of water from the West Bank. Palestinians will not be able to live on the land. There will be no water for them.

While you read on the press, the Palestinian- Palestinian dialogue , all these is a drama. The reality on the ground is really focusing on somewhere else, and focusing on making occupation permanent, grapping the land and grapping the water.

Why is Syria targetive? It is because Syria speaks the logic. Syria is the one who is standing up to this hegomoneous language, and Syria is the one who is saying that occupation shouldn’t continue and settlement shouldn’t continue and people should be free. People who are fighting for their freedom should be free. On the other hand Syria is saying I am ready to set negotiations today with all other Arabs, with Israel in order to make peace in the Middle East.

If I can remind you president Assad gave an interview to the New York times about two weeks ago in which he said Syria is ready to negotiate, to resume negotiation today from where they have stopped. And we really believe it wouldn’t take a month to make peace in the Middle East, if we resumed from where we stopped. The spokesman Mr. Boutcher came up and said we are not interested in what Syria is saying. So this is the real reason.

Why if I can compare this to what is written in Ha’Arets. Israeli writers were blaming the government for not responding to what Syrian initiative saying that it is a very good initiative, and if the government wants peace it should responds to what Syria is saying. Syria really wants just and comprehensive peace in the Middle East. We believe this is the only way for the region, but no one is secure in the region, until all of us are in secure. We have all of us –Muslims, Christians, Jewish – we have no religious problem, we were in Spain and we came together and we have no religious problem or what so other, the only problem we have is occupation and settlement. And once peace are over it is going to be so much easier for all of us to make this region a better place.

The last point I would like to say is that there is a detection of huge discrepancy between what the United States says and what it does in the region. There is a beautiful article in the British Guardian saying do what the United State says, don’t do what it does.

While it’s talking about democracy, about peace and about security?? What is truly happening in the ground is giving free range to those who wants violence in order to continue in occupation, settlement, and to continue killing. And I am sure if you were exposed to the same fact you would feel much much more angry than you feel now.

I don’t know what is the solution, I am telling you what makes us in the Middle East feel optimistic. What makes us optimistic, for example, when twenty five Israelis pilots refused to shot the Palestinian, when four directors of arch emendate live in Israel issued beautiful articles saying what Sharon’s doing to the Israelis is disastrous, he is only breaking the will of the Palestinian. What Abraham in his two articles were speaking about how disastrous the policy of the Sharon for peace and for the future in the Middle East.

Since 1982 the policy of Sharon had always been in the Middle East is to use violence, to kill and to destroy. That is the only policy he has. What makes us also feel optimistic when American people stand against this vehemence of power. And when European people stand against this. When people demonstrated in London, in Italy, that we feel people, everywhere, will not accept this type of hegemony in the region. We share with you this.

How could you fight terrorism in this way? I don’t know, Where is the status if you keep saying these Muslims are terrorists and Afghanis are terrorists, and Iraqis are terrorists and Syria is terrorist, where is the status? I just feel that there is something terribly wrong with this strategy of fighting terrorism, terribly wrong. And it has to be completely reconsidered, otherwise it is creating so much anger and so many difficulties for all of us to survive.

You realize the problem for Syria trying to express this kind of foreign policy in the face of first American power in the region, and there is also the Arab fear in the face of this power, and also the Arab are being in divided (they don’t have one voice or one saying). To speak about corruption in the Arab world, of aggression women, the lack of democracy. I am not saying none of these exists, but, you know, this is a different issue. I think it exists everywhere not just in the Arab world with different degrees. And our people in the Middle East who are fighting against this, and who are trying to make it better.

I think this policy of the United States is really lending force to people who support corruption, who support aggression and who support terrorism. I know that all of you are specialist, and I really want to share with you exactly how we feel. And I am, you know, someone who believes that in my new capacity for the expatriates I am really trying to encourage the Arab community in the United States to be more visible, to speak because they are, also, controlled by fear for their identity, for their existence. Muslims and Arabs are so afraid, are going around saying that at moment of crisis we cannot afford to be afraid. We should be brave, and we should speak about the reality. We should indicate where things could be corrupted, and hopefully they will be corrected.

If I can share with you a personal experience a few days ago, I had a meeting with assistance secretary William Bernz, and, you know, Abraham was there in the meeting. I could see that there are two conflicting opinions in the administration; one by William Bernz saying dialogue and structure dialogue and this could be good, and the other saying we wait what you do, and I am the one who decides. So, it is this tone , it is this hijacking of the American agenda in this way. It is really not doing any service to the American people or the American reputation, it is really not.

There is so much we have in common. There is so much we can do together, and I can’t see any reason for the United States to keep going in that direction while it could win the hearts, and the minds of people. People admire the way the United States works, admire the ethics, admire the system in the United States, admire the freedom, admire the American people. There is no reason for the policy of the United States to be hijacked in such a way. So, I am sharing with you my thought, and I would love to hear from everyone, and thank you very much.

Question: The situation of Iraqi women, would you please give us some examples about what you had said ?

Dr. Bouthaina Shaaban: That was the independence, the British independence. I was talking about women what had not been able to walk out in the street. There is kidnap, there are so many examples of rape that were taking place in Iraq. They cannot go out to work. The whole situation of women is really, as I read it, disastrous compared with what it had been before. On the one hand, there are Muslim women who have a certain way of life and they are torn between their Islamic way of life and the forces of occupation. If they try to go to work they have to be searched by American soldiers, and this is certainly not acceptable for the Muslim woman who is covered. And we all saw in the television how the man is trying to hit this woman away because searching was over her, and she has to close up. For they would rather stay at home and to be not exposed to such a situation. So, they are getting distortion in both ways.

And at schools also parents have to stay with their children because there are so much kidnaps. There are so much drugs in Iraq now, the thing which had never been in Iraq. You know drugs are given to the children at school and the children in the street, to the homeless children in the street. That thing had never been in Iraq before. Of course, that not to speak about the total lack of services like phones, electricity, water in Iraq. Beside the Iraqi army completely is something completely beyond imagination really.

Question: with all these structures we see in New York times show the Iraqi women are always in black shadowers. and actually, you know, Saddam’s horrible and he was. And that was not necessary to the regime. women had some attacks, they had some rights. And completely if it is compared to some Arab nations and especially in the beginning they have a lack of identity, and I heard some truths from the expatriates here.

Dr. Bouthaina Shaaban: I, even, do not really to compare between the United States and Saddam, The United States were there because Saddam was so terrible. But that was not the hope, and that was not the objective. The objective was to me the Iraqi people much better of to put them in an established regime that was what they said.

Question: The dialogue between the Palestinians and the Israelis. Sharon is not a friend of the United States, is not a friend to his people, is not a friend to the Jewish, is not a friend to any body. Now about the suicide bombers, I have astonishment that no body is saying that there is no religion, no strategy says that suicide bombing is honest. And the suicide bombers may change everything in the situation.

Dr. Bouthaina Shaaban: I would like to remind you that at the beginning of Intifada Sharon killed a hundred Palestinians before any suicide bomber, before anything. That was one thing, the second thing is that one day all the Palestinian groups agreed to a choose. You know, with the huge difficulties with Sharon, for six weeks the Palestinian groups had the choose while Sharon continued what he called his targetive killing. And he killed so many women and so many children. And he bombed the house of Salah Shehadeh. And, you know, there are Israelis who are trying to take Sharon to court because he killed fifteen Palestinian children and women just in one day, in one incident.

The other fact is that, at least fifty of the suicide bombers of the women and children had no political acceleration or what so other. You know Hanadi Jhedat the lawyer, a twenty-eight years old woman, her brother was killed, her niece was killed, her house was destroyed. She was ready to desperation. No body will accept, we totally don’t accept the killing of women and children anywhere; Israeli women and children Palestinian women and children, civilians anywhere. But Hanadi Jhedat, the twenty-eight years old (the lawyer) is called a suicide bomber. And you have to get it scientifically if you are talking about social values that the resistance is the result of occupation. Occupation is not the result of the resistance. What comes first is the Israeli killing the Palestinian, and they are occupying their lands, destroying their homes. What we hear in the news that the Palestinian militance. You know, These are not the Palestinian militance; the son of Salah Shehadeh is in the university, he had never failed an exam in his life, and he was killed inside his home. That was for instance, and there are thousands of women and children who had nothing to do with politics and they were killed in their homes.

And the suicide bombing happened twice in the Arab – Israeli conflict; one in Lebanon when Sharon was a minister of defense, and again now when Sharon is a prime minister.

Sharon derived people to desperation. No body would like to go and kill himself or herself in such a horrible way. They are all young men and women and no one in his right mind would approve of anything like this. Let us ask what is the sequence? The sequence is that the Palestinian have their territories occupied. It is the occupation. You know, when the Arab League that gave an initiative in Beirut in March 2002 what did Sharon do? He went into Jenin and killed thirty people. He doesn’t want any peace initiative. And when they offered the Road Map he also refused the initiative after the Road Map, the Arab initiative.

So why do we believe that Saddam is horrible to the Iraqi people and we don’t believe that Sharon is horrible to Israeli people? He is horrible for all of us. His policy is destructive. He believes in violence, he believes in killing. But those are resistance movements.

Start to peace negotiations today, start to sign a peace agreement in two weeks and there will be no Hamas, no Jehad, no body. You know, in 1995 everybody in Syria was calling their children Salam, their new born children peace, because peace was round the corner. You created the atmosphere for peace, you made people believe and hope for peace. But what is Sharon only doing is creating hatred and anger with people, and making them more violent because of the killing and destruction. That is a fact, so we can’t forget that we have two parties and two sides; one side who occupies and the other who is occupied and we have really to differentiate between those.

Question: I want to ask about an initiative or an agreement between civilians of both the Palestinians and the Israelis.

Dr. Bouthaina Shaaban: The region of the women is initiative. I feel that this initiative also came out of the impatient with the waitings are, and concerned the individuals who want to do something both the Israelis and the Palestinians, and they worked out this initiative. Now, in the other side I did not read it so I don’t know what the elements are correct or what are not correct in the initiative. But what I am saying is that no matter how good it might be. It doesn’t address the inside situation, it doesn’t have the objective of making a comprehensive peace. And yet it has been attacked so much by the Israeli and that wasn’t wanted. And they don’t want it to be worked.

Since as always Syria have been saying that all these partial backages aren’t going to work. We have Taba, Mitchel, Road Map, Geneva and Naplus, Ulmret, Uraykat.. All these initiatives are really not to address the real issue, and not to end really the real problem. So, what we would not rather have is the resumption of peace negotiations in all tracks, and that would really address the problem and hopefully solve it.

Question: Syria nowadays results of grave of continued occupation to Lebanon, could you comment on that please.

Dr. Bouthaina Shaaban: Yah, there is no occupation in Lebanon, because there is nobody fighting occupation in Lebanon. We still have about twelve thousands soldiers in the Baqa valley, Syrian soldiers. If you see the map of Syria, the Syrian borders with Lebanon go down to Homs, my hometown, which is very important. It really go to the middle of Syria. And really without a peace agreement cannot leave our borders expored without any soldiers being there. Our borders with Israel. And when Syria was attacked by missile about five weeks ago the missile was lodged from Lebanon. So, Lebanon, you know, with its weak army, with its exposure to Israeli forces is really a bombable twin to Syria and it was for our security to have twelve thousands soldiers been there just in the Baqa valley in the Syrian borders.

Question: How the Iraqi self-governing council, or the Iraqi self-governing government could be put to work. Do you have the confidence of the Iraqi people? Do you have confidence in the council??

Dr. Bouthaina Shaaban: thank you very much, because this is really a very difficult question, because it is really very difficult to see how things could be done in Iraq. To my best knowledge, probably. The best solution would be both for the Iraqi people and for the United States out of this dilemma is to try and talk to Arabs and Europeans, and probably through the United Nations. Make others contribute to reflect on solutions and on the way of doing things. The situation in Iraq is very difficult, you know, there is now no constitution. They have to draw their constitution. They have to form really a government. The way I see it is that the United States had enforced this war; once to have control on every thing is going on in Iraq, and in the other hand it is not able to handle or to address social service and political issues in Iraq. So, it really needs help.

I think if the turn is different with the other countries. If the United States is willing to give a very little room for other people Syria would be very willing to help, France is very willing to help, Germany. To my knowledge, the best way would be to probably through the United Nations consult others to contribute the solution in Iraq, because the problem is so huge and you know now how they differ about the contracts in Iraq. They do not want to give roles to France and Germany. I think things should be addressed in a different manner and in a different way, because what we hear now is that everyone now who stood against the war should punished by not getting any contract. The issue is not in getting contracts, the issue is the country and the Iraqi people.

So, once that frame of mind is really planned in that way to address these issues there something could be found. It is not easy, you know, if it has never been easy to role Iraq for any one even for the Iraqi government, I mean Iraq is the most difficult Arab country really. If the United States wants to get out of this muddy situation it should accept other people to contribute to a solution even it has to give them a little bit of room or other advantages, because it is the Iraqi people who is underestimating what could happen. And I was listening to when they captured Saddam and how it could end the resistance. In the Arab world, the reading is that neither if Saddam was captured the Shiite are going to start the resistance. They were so hesitant because they were so afraid of Saddam after killing the Shiite people. Now because Saddam is no longer there, I think, my reading is that America might have much harsher time from now on.

Question: Could you compare the Road Map with a Camp David accord?

Dr. Bouthaina Shaaban: No, I really cannot. I don’t think I am qualified to that, but I think the problem or the point in common in those who are trying to partially address the Palestinian situation, leaving the Lebanese, the Syrian tracks aside as they consider the conflict is the Israeli – Palestinian conflict which really doesn’t in the problem. So, again both for short of a comprehensive peace formula.

You know, one day they went to the Sharem Al-Sheikh for the Road Map the day president Bush made the conference with Sharon and Abo Mazen I said the Road Map is killed. Do you know why? What happened?? What happened was that, first, Abo Mazen was made his speech in which he spoke about the Israeli suffering but not mentioning the Palestinian suffering or what the Palestinian are subjected to. Second, Sharon never mentioned anything wrong is being done to the Palestinian people, and he spoke about Jewish state. Third, president Bush concerned speaking about a Jewish state. For Arab people it finished, it was finished the Road Map on that day. So, Analinde, the brave woman, the foreign minister in Sweden who was brutally killed, said that day they gave the Road Map the kiss of death on the birthday. She understood what is going on, and I am sure she paid her life for her bravery. She was very very brave woman.

Question: I just want to thank you very much for everything…

Dr. Bouthaina Shaaban: thank you. It is lovely to be here. Thank you so much. Thank you for coming. Lovely to see you again.